Watch CNBC’s full interview with Pentagon’s Emil Michael

ATTACK SUBMARINES AND GET THEM ONLINE FASTER WITH HIGHER TECH COMPONENTS. CARL, BACK OVER TO YOU. >> OKAY. THANK YOU EAMON. EAMON JAVERS GOOD SET UP. FOR MORE ON THIS STORY, LET'S BRING IN EMIL MICHAEL, CTO AND UNDERSECRETARY FOR RESEARCH AND ENGINEERING AT THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, WAS ALSO JUST NAMED TO PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SUPERINTELLIGENCE FORCE. IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU, EMIL. >> GOOD TO. >> BE HERE. >> SARAH. WELCOME BACK. SO MAYBE LET'S JUST START ON THE EAMON QUESTION THERE THAT HE THAT HE JUST RAISED WITH THIS NEW BIG NAVY CONTRACT FOR FOR ANDURIL AND PALMER LUCKEY, THE FACT THAT HE'S NOW SORT OF IN THE SEMI-OFFICIAL ROLE ADVISING THE U.S. GOVERNMENT DOES HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE THAT DOESN'T RAISE CONFLICT OF INTEREST QUESTIONS, AS BOTH HE AND MUSK ARE MAJOR CONTRACTORS NOW FOR ALL THESE NEW GOVERNMENT PROJECTS. >> YES. SO THE WE CALL IT PROJECT MERIDIAN. THAT'S THE FUTURE OF WARFARE. IT'S BEING RUN BY A NONPROFIT CALLED MITRE. AND WHAT MITRE HAS DONE IS COLLECTED A BUNCH OF EXPERTS, ACADEMICS, FORMER GENERALS, INDUSTRY LEADERS, AND BROUGHT THEM TOGETHER TO TALK ABOUT WHAT WARFARE MIGHT LOOK LIKE IN 10 OR 20 YEARS. AND THE IDEA IS THAT WE MISSED, IN SOME WAYS, THE UKRAINE AND RUSSIA WAR THAT STARTED DURING THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, SORT OF THE THE PROLIFERATION OF DRONES AND COUNTER DRONES. AND THE IDEA IS NOT TO MISS THE NEXT GENERATION OF NEW TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE HITTING WARFARE. SO WE HAVE A ROBUST CONFLICT PROCESS, AND IT'S BEING RUN BY A NONPROFIT. SO THERE'S REALLY NOTHING TO SEE HERE. >> GOT IT. SO THAT SO THAT WAS THAT WAS TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION THAT IT WOULDN'T JUST BE, I GUESS, A ROADMAP FOR FUTURE CONTRACTS FOR THESE COMPANIES. >> OF COURSE. >> WHY IS IT IMPORTANT THAT THE OUTSIDERS GET A SAY IN, IN OUR STRATEGY AND MILITARY DEFENSE FOR THE FUTURE? >> WELL, THIS IS NOT OUTSIDERS HAVING A SAY. THIS IS GOING TO BE A PUBLIC STUDY WHERE WE PUBLISH THE RESULTS. AND IT'S REALLY TO TELL CONGRESS. IT'S TO TELL INDUSTRY, ALL KINDS OF INDUSTRY, SUPPLY CHAIN, CRITICAL MINERALS PROVIDERS, LIKE ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT WE'RE REALIZING WE NEED NOW. WE JUST DON'T WANT TO BE SURPRISED IN THE FUTURE. SO HAVING OUTSIDERS WHO THINK ABOUT THESE THINGS, BOTH ACADEMICS AND AND FORMER MILITARY AND INDUSTRY IS EXACTLY THE RIGHT KIND OF MIX THAT YOU WANT, BECAUSE YOU NEED TO MOBILIZE AN ENTIRE NATION IN THE EVENT OF A CONFLICT. AND SO IT JUST MAKES SENSE TO HAVE THEM AROUND THE TABLE VERSUS PEOPLE WHO'VE NEVER SEEN OR NEVER HAD ANY THOUGHT PROCESS AROUND THESE KINDS OF THINGS. >> I MEAN, IT DOES STRIKE ME THAT IN THIS ADMINISTRATION, AS TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPS AND THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE MOVES, MOVES CLOSER TO TO THESE, YOU KNOW, GAME CHANGING TECHNOLOGIES, IT'S IT'S ANDURIL, IT'S PALANTIR, IT'S SPACEX. IS THIS THE NEW SORT OF LOCKHEED AND NORTHROP GRUMMAN'S? >> WELL, I THINK WE DEFINITELY WANT MORE THAN FIVE PRIME CONTRACTORS. AND THOSE THREE ARE GREAT CONTRACTORS. WE ALSO NEED THE AI COMPANIES AT THE TABLE. WE NEED THE SUPPLY CHAIN COMPANIES AT THE TABLE. LIKE THERE'S A LONG CHAIN OF SUPPLY SUPPLY CHAIN THAT GOES INTO MAKING ANYTHING THAT WE USE IN WARFARE. THERE'S ALSO CHIPS, ALL THE THINGS THAT SUSTAIN A DOMESTIC ECONOMY THAT PROTECT THE HOMELAND. SO THE LIST IS REALLY PRETTY ENDLESS. IF YOU THINK ABOUT SORT OF A MAJOR POTENTIAL CONFLICT. AND THAT'S WHY WE NEED AS MANY VOICES AROUND THE TABLE AS WE CAN. >> ARE WE ARE WE BETTER THAN CHINA AT INNOVATING HERE ON, ON MILITARY TECHNOLOGY? >> WE ARE MUCH BETTER THAN INNOVATING ON MILITARY TECHNOLOGY. THE THING THAT WE ALSO HAVE TO GET BETTER AT IS THE ABILITY TO PRODUCE AT SCALE. AND YOU CAN SEE COUNTRIES LIKE UKRAINE WERE ABLE TO PRODUCE DRONES AT SCALE. SO IT IS POSSIBLE, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A WARTIME FOOTING. AND THAT'S WHAT SECRETARY HEGSETH AND PRESIDENT TRUMP HAVE PUT US ON, WHICH IS HAVE THE DOMESTIC CAPABILITY TO PRODUCE THINGS AT SCALE, NOT JUST EXQUISITE, BECAUSE THEY WORK THE BEST AND THEIR BEST TECHNOLOGY, BUT YOU HAVE TO PRODUCE MORE OF THEM. AND THAT'S OUR GOAL. >> EMIL, WHAT DO YOU WANT FOLKS TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE SUPERINTELLIGENCE FORCE? IS IT ABOUT SORT OF LOOKING AHEAD TO FUTURE RISKS OR INVESTIGATING THINGS WE ALREADY KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT, LIKE HUGGING FACE. >> IT'S MORE ABOUT LOOKING TOWARD FUTURE RISK, BUT AND FUTURE OPPORTUNITY. AND THE THING IS THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF SCARE TACTICS THAT HAVE BEEN PERPETRATED IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS, POTENTIALLY WITH SOME FOREIGN INFLUENCE THAT SORT OF SCARED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. YOU SEE HOW THIS POLLS, AND THE IDEA IS TO MAKE SURE THAT AMERICAN PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT AI CAN WORK FOR THEM, CAN SUPPORT THEIR GOALS, AND TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE TALKING TO THE DIFFERENT GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHO IT MIGHT BENEFIT, BUT ALSO TO BE COGNIZANT OF THE RISKS AND MAKE SURE THAT THE AI COMPANIES, THE MEGA-CORPORATIONS, ARE TAKING THEIR OWN STOCK OF THE RISKS AND INVESTING IN PROTECTING AGAINST THOSE RISKS AND ENSURING THAT WE HAVE THE RIGHT REGULATIONS, LAWS AND, AND, AND POWERS THAT WE ALREADY HAVE IN PLACE AND MAKE SURE THEY UNDERSTAND THAT TO ENSURE THAT THEY KNOW THAT THEY'RE LIABLE IN CERTAIN CASES AND THEY TAKE THOSE RISKS SERIOUSLY, SO THAT WE HAVE A ROBUST AI INDUSTRY IN THE UNITED STATES THAT BEATS CHINA, WHERE THE RISKS ARE BEING BORNE BY THOSE WHO WHO CREATE THOSE RISKS AND ENSURING THAT THE INTERESTS OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE FIRST AND FOREMOST. >> SO IS THAT IS THAT WHAT THE TASK FORCE IS ABOUT? HOW HOW TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE LIABLE? BECAUSE I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE, AND THAT'S A BIG PART OF WHAT YOU THINK NEEDS TO HAPPEN HERE TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS DOESN'T GET OUT OF CONTROL. BUT I MEAN, IS ANY LIABILITY BEING ENFORCED? >> YEAH. I MEAN, I YOU SAW A FEW MONTHS AGO THAT WHEN THE PRESIDENT SAW THAT ANTHROPIC HAD RELEASED A MODEL THAT HAD SOME DANGERS IN THEM, HE SLAPPED EXPORT CONTROLS ON THEM WITHIN A COUPLE OF HOURS. I THINK THIS IS NOT TO EDUCATE THEM ABOUT THE, THE SORT OF LIABILITIES WHICH ARE SORT OF SELF-EVIDENT IN THEIR LEGAL TEAMS PROBABLY KNOW ABOUT THEM, BUT IT'S REALLY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE TAKING CARE TO DO THE RIGHT THINGS. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE WHITE HOUSE ACCORD THAT WAS SIGNED BY PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THESE BIG COMPANIES, IT SAID THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE INDEPENDENT EVALUATORS, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE INDEPENDENT COMMITTEES OF THE BOARD THAT ARE GOING TO LOOK AT THE EVALUATIONS OF THOSE INDEPENDENT PEOPLE THAT THEY HAVE, EVALUATING THE RISKS INTERNALLY, WHICH HEARKENS BACK TO THE HUGGING FACE INCIDENT, AND SORT OF HELPING THEM ENSURE THAT THEY'RE STRUCTURED, RIGHT, TO ASSUME THE RISKS AND PREVENT AND MITIGATE THE RISKS AND REALLY DELIVER THE BENEFITS THAT THEY CAN WITHOUT DELIVERING ANY HARMS. >> IT'S INTERESTING WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT PUBLIC OPINION, WE HAD THE CEO OF AIRBNB ON LAST WEEK, AND HIS VIEW WAS THAT AMERICANS IN PARTICULAR ARE HEARING ABOUT AI MOSTLY THROUGH AN ENTERPRISE FRAMEWORK. AND IN THAT SENSE, THEY FEEL LIKE AI IS SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENING TO THEM RATHER THAN SOMETHING THAT'S WORKING FOR THEM. I WONDER IF YOU IF YOU THINK AS CONSUMER TECHNOLOGY EVOLVES, THAT THAT WILL CHANGE, THAT WILL MOVE THE NEEDLE. >> YEAH, I THINK IT WILL. IF YOU LOOK AT GROK BOT OR DOTS OR SOME OF THESE THINGS WHICH ARE GETTING MORE INTO THE HANDS OF CONSUMERS BESIDES THE SORT OF CHATGPT THAT A LOT OF CONSUMERS KNOW ABOUT ALREADY, AND YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO HELP THEM ORGANIZE THEIR DAY, IT'S GOING TO TAKE FRICTION OUT OF THEIR LIVES. I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO SEE THOSE BENEFITS MORE AND MORE. BUT IT'S ALSO INCUMBENT UPON THESE COMPANIES TO DISPLAY THOSE BENEFITS AND TO SORT OF HAVE PRODUCT PRODUCTS THAT SHOW THEM THE BENEFITS AND DELIVER THE BENEFITS. SO WE'RE WE'RE PRETTY EARLY IN THIS PHASE. I KNOW WE'RE SORT OF GETTING TO A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE ARE SAYING, OH MY GOD, YOU HAVE TO BE SCARED ABOUT THESE THINGS. BUT REALLY, WE SHOULD BE IN A PLACE WHERE THE PEOPLE IN THESE COMPANIES ARE SHOWING THE BENEFITS THAT IT GIVES TO THE AVERAGE AMERICAN. AND I THINK THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO COME IN THE NEXT YEAR. >> YEAH, BUT I MEAN, AGREE, BUT IT WON'T MATTER, RIGHT? IF THEY'RE AS DANGEROUS AS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING ON THEM ARE WARNING US THAT THEY ULTIMATELY COULD BE. AND WHAT DO YOU WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT THAT? >> YEAH. I MEAN, LOOK, THE INCIDENTS THAT WE'VE SEEN SO FAR, IF YOU TALK TO THESE COMPANIES, THEY SAY THEY ALL WERE PREVENTABLE, RIGHT? THEY DIDN'T BUILD THEIR SANDBOXES APPROPRIATELY. THEY DIDN'T CHECK THE LOGS APPROPRIATELY. THEY DIDN'T DO THESE THINGS APPROPRIATELY. SO IF THEY DO THOSE APPROPRIATELY, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THOSE INCIDENTS. AND THEN WHAT WERE THEIR WHAT WOULD THERE BE TO BE SCARED OF? AND, AND WHEN YOU SEE, I THINK THE THREAT REPORT THAT ANTHROPIC PUT OUT, THEY SAY, OKAY, WELL, WE SAW PEOPLE USE TRY TO USE THESE THINGS FOR BAD REASONS, BUT THEN WE STOPPED THEM. SO THEY'RE ACTUALLY EFFECTIVE AT STOPPING BAD THINGS FROM HAPPENING. IF THEY'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE PAYING ATTENTION AND HAVE THE RIGHT TEAMS ON IT AND THEY HAVE THE RIGHT VISIBILITY INTO IT. SO I THINK EVERYTHING THAT WE'VE SEEN SO FAR WAS PREVENTABLE BY THE LABS THEMSELVES. AND THAT'S A KEY POINT TO TAKE AWAY. >> DO YOU THINK THESE COMPANIES SHOULD BE GOING PUBLIC NOW? >> I MEAN, YOU KNOW THAT'S UP TO THEM. I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT WILL DETERMINE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S BASED ON WHAT THEY THINK THEIR FINANCIAL INTERESTS ARE. I DO THINK OPEN SOURCE AI MODELS ARE GOING TO HAVE A BIG IMPACT IN THE MARKETPLACE. I THINK COMPANIES ARE ARE BEING MORE EFFICIENT ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE SPENDING. AND I THINK MAYBE SOME OF THEM WANT TO GET OUT OF THE GATE SOONER TO SORT OF BE IN FRONT OF THAT, BUT THAT'S UP TO THEM. >> OKAY. WELL, WE CERTAINLY