Squawk Pod: An AI task force, AI & your happiness, plague in Siberia – 10/05/26 | Audio Only

Bring in show music, please. >> Hi, I'm CNBC producer Katie Kramer. Today on Squawk Pod, another week, another list of ways we aren't sure if artificial intelligence is going to make our lives awesome or terrible. Arthur Brooks, happiness expert. >> The wrong way to use AI or any other technology is as a substitute for your actual in-person relationships. >> Tries to help. >> If you're getting your girlfriend experience from it, yikes. the outlook for regulating AI technology. Senator Chris Coons, >> look, it's going to unlock enormous potential in our economy. It's also got huge risks >> on the plans and the need for plans. >> And when people like Dario Amodai and Sam Alman say we need some regulation from government, I think we should look very hard at it. >> AI, it's the topic of 2026. I think right now everybody's trying to just like stay under stay under the clouds. >> All that today plus the weekend at the box office, at the ballot box, and in a Siberian lab. It's Monday, October 5th, 2026. Squawk Pod begins right now. >> Stand back by in 3 2 1. Cue, please. >> Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Squawkbox right here on CNBC. We are live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. I'm Becky Quick along with Joe Kernan and Andrew Ross Sorcin. >> Meanwhile, Treasury Secretary Scott Besson weighing in on the bond market over the weekend. Here's what he said on the Axio show with Mike Allen. >> I can't control the bond market. What I can do is try to get people to slow down and think because you know my job in the financial markets for 30 years was to be outside the door ear to the door when policy was being made sometimes for with myself over the transom and think like what policy makers going to do should do can do and now that I'm in the room and what I meant by I in the house is that I have superior information like people could ask you know obviously the Japanese would have liked for us to intervene the in the end at some point any time since January. Why did we do it then? People should sit back and ask themselves that. >> Well, uh he said something similar to us at the time about a couple weeks ago. Yeah. When he was here when he was asked, you know, about the statement um about being the house, he said, "Look, this is he he was simply saying I was on the outside. Now I'm on the inside and I know policy." Um but but yeah, the bond market obviously is what we're all watching closely. What's happening in Europe is raising a lot of concerns. Ben Emmens put out a note yesterday just saying that uh France is the new Greece because French yields are now higher than Greek yields at this point. There is the concern about contagion because the French bonds, the oats are the most widely traded internationally held stocks too. So there is a sense of contagion about what happens there. You can see the tenure on the French yield right now at 491. Yeah. I'm so hopeful that we're at the high end of a range, not the low end of a of a range. Remember Jay Clayton when he was on is that last week? >> Yes. >> And you remember he was also I mean I know with the news we're about to talk about he was also in that lunch, >> right? But I kept asking him you going to be the AIR and he kept he just would go on to something else. Um he is President Trump has chosen the director of national intelligence Jay Clayton to be his AISAR. He will lead a new White House task force which will have 120 days to research and report on AI's risks and opportunities and offer recommendations uh on the government's responsibilities for the new technology. The group will be called the Super Intelligence Force. Uh and of course that's the term President Trump prefers over AI. Here's what Clayton told us last week. >> It's a step recognizing that we that we need to lead in this absolutely critical gamechanging inflection point in our economy and that we're all going to be cleareyed and with a wide field of view about how best to protect the American people. >> We had uh who else was I read a couple of times who else was on the uh the panel. Did you guys see it? There's there's good there's good names on uh >> the panel who's going to be with the head of the FCC. It's the head of just a whole various group of agencies. >> Yeah. >> Is that who you're referring to? >> Yeah, I think and then I saw other people I mean there's people I like. Uh >> yeah. Who are you referring to? >> I'm looking uh who else is on on Clayton? uh vice president JD Vance, cabinet members and major industry adviserss is >> there were some industry advisors I saw in there that I I thought okay they might be able to come to some decent determinations about uh about what needs to be done. I I don't know. Uh it's just funny I the the way that it that that that it has sort of played out who's a doomer and who's not a doomer and there are really delineated clear differences in how what people really think about whether that's why I haven't heard Elon speak much about it but right at the very beginning that's when I thought okay uh I would I would expect it from certain part but when he said it okay then I I'd worry about it But I haven't heard him really weighing in as much on on I don't think Jay Clayton feels like it's uh the end of humanity anytime soon as far as far as >> well. But just just note even Dario and this is where everyone needs to I hope understand and appreciate all the incentives. Even Dario was trying to be uh somewhat supportive of the president last Tuesday. But I think we just need to recognize some of this is being done under some form of duress, if you will. And I would argue similarly, you know, Sam obviously has his own views. Elon's had his own views. So when you when when you say someone's not speaking out or speaking out, I think right now everybody's trying to just like stay under stay under the clouds. >> Yeah. >> Right now. Meanwhile, nearly 200 people have been hospitalized in Russia's eastern Siberia. This over suspected exposure to plague. Local reports say that 189 people are being monitored following the illness of an employee at an anti-plague research institute. Russia's public health watchdog uh said that one woman died after being diagnosed with pneumonia of an unknown eeology. The White House has been monitoring the reports of the suspected case and related quarantines. this according to Reuter uh to Axios I should say and there's been a lot of u conversation online and uh in the newspapers over the weekend about just how widespread this is uh what's happening inside Russia whether this could get outside of Russia and so we're going to have to keep our eyes on this and uh try to understand exactly what happened >> Brazil's presidential election is headed to a runoff leftist president Lula Dilva won 44.8% 8% of the vote, falling short of Flavio Balssonro, a 45-year-old senator and the eldest son of the imprisoned former president Hier Bolsiniro. He received 47.3% of the vote. That strong performance by right-wing candidates had not been captured by the polls which had Dilva favored as of Saturday. >> Meanwhile, uh Spanish Prime Minister uh Pedro Sanchez calling a snap election for uh November 29th. this after Spain's Congress rejected measures intended to quell public anger over the country's housing crisis. Tens of thousands taking to the streets over the weekend in protests that involved clashes with police in some areas. Public discontent over the cost of living, wage stagnation, and the lack of affordable housing has spilled over following the eviction of an 87year-old disabled woman from her home of 70 years. Immigration has also been a growing political flash point in all of it. Tom Cruz's dark comedy Digger. It did bomb at the box office over the weekend. The film brought in just $8 million in its North American debut at an estimated budget of about $160 million. That doesn't include marketing costs, which often can be another 50 to 100% of the cost. It's the last film Warner Brothers will release as a standalone studio before the Paramount deal closes. And that deal is expected to close tomorrow. Meanwhile, newcomer uh Varity topped the box office, the psychological thriller starring Anne Hathaway. And Dakota Johnson brought in $32.6 million in its opening weekend. And that is the third movie of the year that Anne Hathaway has led as a number one and is a record for a female actress. >> Wow. >> The Oak Street was just >> It was Jurassic Park comes to your neighborhood. So absurd that I I would have been embarrassed to uh been in there. Cheese will be next. >> Coming up on Squawkpot are AI anxieties and what to do about them. Author and podcaster Arthur Brooks >> and our favorite happiness expert. >> Well, thank you. I might I might >> I think you may be our only happiness expert. That's what I was Yeah, let's go there. >> You're listening to SquawkPod from CNBC. >> Stand by. Joe, his mic. Good morning and welcome back to Squawk by Live from the NASDAQ market site in Times Square. >> OpenAI CEO Sam Alman saying he and anthropic CEO Dario Amod see the world differently. When asked where he diverges from Amod Alman told Politico, "We believe the world should accept some bad things happening for the benefits of this technology and people having the agency." Join us right now to talk about how the public is thinking about AI doomsday fears. Arthur Brooks, Vanderbilts University professor, columnist, the free press, and uh podcast host of uh office hours with Arthur Brooks and our favorite happiness expert. >> Well, thank you. Am I >> I think you may be our only happiness expert. That's what I was Yeah, let's go there. But >> what do you make though of the sort of doomsday feeling that's out there right now? But maybe more pointedly, what do you make of Sam's argument that there are going to be downsides and that that's just part of the trade-off and cost of what this technology can do on the upside? >> That's reality. I mean, anytime you get some new technology, anything that inflects the economy or brings us forward, you're going to have some downside to it. Anybody who says it's all good and not bad is lying. >> Are you a believer this is all good? No. Or or take out the all. Are you are you of the believer this is good for societ? I'm I'm an optimist about this and part of the reason is because I was trained as an economist and anything that actually really does inflict the economy, it has some costs. It has some dislocation involved in it, but at the end of the day, we figure out how to use it. This is not nuclear weapons we're talking about. >> Do you think this is a technology that changes uh people's relationship with each other? I would argue social media changed people's relationship with each other and this is sort of the next level version of that. >> Yeah, it is. And and that's actually what we have to get used to. So the telephone did that as well. If you look at what the New York Times was writing about when telephones were starting to be introduced, they said, "Nobody's going to go out of the house anymore." You know, people are just going to hold a phone up at church and then not go to church. That's how people were talking about it. Even when I was a kid, when we were kids, Joe, people were, you know, mom would say, "It's a beautiful day. Go outside." They were really worried about the fact that this was changing our relationship with others. And and today, we've got that figured out. It's going to take a little bit longer, but we will figure this out. >> And what does figuring it out mean, though? It means that we actually well technically what this means is we have to use our brains correctly. The problem that we have with AI today is that we have a a right side of our brain that's very relational and the left side of our brain that's very technical. People are using it not just for the left side technical stuff but to substitute for their relationships. The wrong way to use AI or any other technology is as a substitute for your actual in-person relationships. If it's your friend or if you're getting your girlfriend experience from it. Yikes. or or god forbid if it's your therapist, you're doing it wrong. >> Are you totally opposed to the idea of people who are using this as a >> completely opposed to it because your brain knows the difference. It'll sort of pass the touring test of yeah, this seems real, but you'll get more depressed, more anxious, and lonelier. >> Well, not to mention that a lot of these um AI therapy tricks so far have basically been telling you what you want to hear. >> Yeah, for sure. They they they kiss up, right? >> Which is part of the reason that people are so interested in them. I mean, you can use them as an adjunct to anything that you're doing in your life, but that's very leftrain. >> But to the issue and and and Sam used the phrase agency. >> Yeah. >> The thing that I'm concerned about is, and I've talked about it on the broadcast, there have been times where I feel like I've almost lost agency, meaning I'll be interacting with Claude or Chat GPT or whatever >> and it sounds right enough that you go, "Oh, that might be okay." Now, because of my own life experience, I'm occasionally able happily to be able to push back and go, "That's not right. That's that's like the wrong advice or that's the the fact is wrong or the way it's being thought about is wrong." And I can say, "Hey," and then of course it'll occasionally apologize to me as well and say, "I didn't get it right." Oh, you're right. But if you're a younger person without the life experience >> and you don't know any better, >> it may very well be that you actually genuinely lose agency because you look at what you're being told and you go, "Oh, >> that seems reasonable." >> About advice. Well, guess what? People go to universities and fall prey to bad advice. People Google stuff and fall prey to bad advice. >> Right. But this is at scale. That's that's the distinction. >> Yeah. People actually are pretty good, however, be becoming more and more skeptical of what AIs are telling them. They don't take it as the gospel truth. There will always be people who are who are credulous. There are always people who will fall under the spell. But I think >> but I'm saying younger people in particular. I have I have kids and I think that your kids are uniquely credulous even though they're also uniquely skeptical about >> which is why we have parents and we actually have people who are in their lives who say that you shouldn't believe the machines necessarily and you need to get out and be with other people and and what we need to do is to to give them the lives that we had ourselves or give them better lives than what we actually had. Okay, let me fast forward to the other issue which is jobs, dignity of work and all that. I don't if you saw there's a study out I think even just over the weekend or from last week in in New York City, right? >> Um the number of postings for um firsttime jobs like out of school some some of the sort of like >> entry level jobs in white collar land >> down. >> Yeah, for sure. And so the question is how people are ever going to even feel about this technology ultimately if they genuinely think it is going to upend their ability to have the dignity of work. >> Yeah. And the dignity of work is actually real. But the idea that we would protect jobs that are becoming overtaken by events by any technology that's an exercise in futility. The truth is we're always changing technology and it's always disrupting what's going on with the economy with jobs. What we need to do to be responsible to do is to get people ready for the workforce that actually leverages the technology. >> What does that mean? People say that all the time. We need to get ahead of this. And I myself, what is it? What does that even >> look I'm thinking about it myself. You know, the first thing that is ravaged is the bookw writing world. That's what AI has actually done. And you know, back in the day, you'd say, "Oh, this is going to be great because people are actually going to be it's going to be complimentary to what it's going to make my job easier." On the contrary, people will say, "What does Arthur Brooks say about X, Y, and Z?" And and then they don't need to go buy his book. We already see the problem in there and this is actually going to happen. >> Okay. So, what are you doing about that on a personal level? >> I'm doing a lot more podcasting. I'm doing a lot more TV. I'm actually I'm testing by the way I'm testing my students in a different way. I used to make them write memos. Well, not anymore. I mean, Chad GPT is a great way to actually get your memos written. I now test my students by making them make a video of them teaching my material to somebody else and turn it into video. >> And it turns out they're learning a lot more, too. We got to be creative about this. And I think we will be. I think it'll be okay. >> I saw that report, too. And immediately tying it to AI. And of course, the people on the anti-mandani type say, "Oh, they're blaming it on AI with all these other really possibly job hurting policies of the Mandami inter." So, so whenever you do a study, you need to to actually do a controlled study where you where you control variable. You can't just say, "Oh, it it's AI." I mean, there's a lot going on in New York City that could be responsible for why there aren't as many job. >> It could be for sure. And and you know, we're actually starting to get more research back and it takes a long time to do this. >> But Dian, I I still think and this is what this is my dumerism. I'm not a a doomer in in terms of the end of humanity. Just seems like everything that AI promises >> basically you're displacing a human from from doing whatever it is that AI is allowing you to do better. I just see how it's not it's not a zero sum game, but it's it's going to be >> on the margin. >> Here's how we understand jobs in the economy. As a general rule, every skilled job has about 40 discrete tasks. That that's, you know, give or take, 40 discreet tasks. When there's a big inflection in the way that we do work, what it does is it takes all those 40 tasks and disassembles them and then we reassemble them in different ways. And if you did one thing for a long time, that really hurts a lot. I get it. We now we have to find better ways to help people to adjust. But the truth is our kids are going to be doing something different no matter what. This is what's going to happen. And I truly believe that 20 years from now, this is going to be one of the greatest engines of economic growth and actually we'll figure out Yeah. job growth and it's going to be >> AI >> AI and it's going to be good for our creativity as well, but it's going to hurt in the meantime. Now, here's the rule is happiness that we need to be thinking about here. If any technology is a substitute for your in-person love, it's a problem and it's going to make you depressed and anxious. If it complements it, if you find some way to enhance your relationships with people in real life, that's good. And right now, we're getting that wrong. And that's the big threat. >> Don't dogs don't dogs come into play. I'm kidding. I know. >> You can't I know it's like the best possible people. >> People are fine, but uh Yeah, exactly. They're the best pops. They are um just, you know, I'm stuck with four at this point. We're babysitting one. That's too many. That's that's that's actually affecting >> dogs. I have four. >> Affecting my happiness. >> Arthur, thank you. >> Thanks. Great to be with you. >> Thanks for keeping us at work. >> At least trying. >> Yeah. >> Next on Squawk Pod, Senator Chris Coons, Democrat of Delaware on the road to AI regulation and in the near term, the final sprint to 2026's midterm election day. President Trump has um an exceptionally loyal Republican majority that has done very little to override him on key issues. We'll be right back. And we're back. This is Squawk Pod. Here's Becky Quick. All right, we are just weeks away from the midterm elections and issues ranging from AI to the war in Iran are taking center stage. Joining us right now is Democratic Senator Chris Coons. Uh, Senator, before we get to anything we just talked about, um, look, people have this perception that nothing ever gets done in Washington. You sat down and you said you passed five bills last week and I said, "What were they? >> What happened?" >> Um, so a very broad range. Um, Senator Marowski and I got sent to the president's desk. Um, the reauthorization of act for ALS, which is going to invest a hundred million a year in ALS research. My closest friend has ALS. Uh many folks have family members or friends who've been touched by this terrible disease. Another one was the Protect College Sports Act. It came out of the Senate. The House will take it up in the lame duck. One that I found particularly important to me and it took way too long was the Stop Taxing American Hostages Act with Senator Mike Brown. It it is what it sounds like. >> But but I I I didn't even think that this was possible. Explain the backtory on that. So Jason Rosanne, a Washington Post reporter, uh was arrested by the Iranians, I think it was in 2014. And he spent a year and a half in an Iranian prison. And when he came home, the first thing he got from the US government was a $20,000 tax bill for failure to file and pay his taxes. So Jason's a resourceful guy. He goes to the IRS. He says, "Um, I was in prison in Iran." They said, "Well, we don't know that officially. How are we supposed to know that?" He says, "Front page of the post." They said, "No, that you know, lots of people say they were arrested overseas." So, we had to go through a process to get the special presidential envoy for hostage affairs to detail a list of people wrongfully detained and imprisoned overseas. Um, this actually has a look back provision, so it will help some folks who were previously imprisoned. But, I mean, think of like the Marine Paul Wheelen who was in prison in Russia for years. It took five years to get it This is why people think Congress can't get anything done because to do something that is so obvious takes this long to work its way. >> You got to be persistent. You got to be bipartisan. The crazy thing to me when we asked for the score, how much will it cost? It's positive because the IRS actually litigated these cases and lost them. Yeah. And they spent more money than they would have collecting the 20,000 to begin with. Anyway, >> exactly. >> Um, okay. Let's let's talk about the issues that are front and center that that that seem like they are more intractable problems. Let's start with AI maybe. Um >> we now have super intelligence, this new committee that's here to deal deal with this. What are your concerns about AI? Do you think that we are addressing them properly? >> I don't. Um look, it's going to unlock enormous potential in our economy. It's also got huge risks and like every other major new technology from you know automobiles and jet planes to nuclear power and medical devices. We need to find a balance between safety and regulation. Uh, I was in a car accident in June and I walked away because of seat belts and airbags. Uh, and I'm grateful um that all five of the cars that were totaled in this pileup, everybody walked away. >> The start, we didn't start with auto regulations before we really had huge number of autos and things that were happening on this >> and we had people dying um on the roads and it was relatively easy to fix. The key difference with AI is that it is now capable of improving itself. It is already doing things that those who are designing and developing it didn't expect, can't explain, and are having trouble researching. In a jet plane, when it crashes, there's a black box that allows investigators afterwards to know exactly what happened and how. part of the hugging face um incident where AI agents uh partnered and broke into another site. They were trying to get the tools to cover their own tracks. Think about that. So last week I introduced a bipartisan bill with senators Britt and Langford shots and I that would require transparency from AI systems about what pre-eployment testing they did. There's a bunch of good bipartisan bills. Senator Grassley and I have the AI whistleblowers act. Senator Grassley would admit on this show he doesn't know that much about exactly how AI works. Frankly, I don't either. But we know that when there's a new complex technology, making sure that whistleblowers have the opportunity to come forward is something Senator Grassley's championed for years and I think would also be a reasonable safeguard. >> You actually called the agents they instead of it. >> Yes. We got to figure out genders or the this stuff too. Is it are they they are are they >> agents? You're right. Anthropomorphizing or or making ascribing intentionality to AI agents, >> but you can't do it any other way because it's not >> it's hard to describe their activity as anything other than self-aware. >> Knife involved. Nothing. Is it still happening? I will say it's it's striking um that the pope uh has recently been speaking out has a new encyclical about saying there is no soul there is no spirit to AI but >> maybe it proves there is a soul to humans >> but we need to be mindful of its consequences for >> you didn't say we were at recursive self-improvement yet you're talking about AI aided uh correct but he said that they're doing that they are doing things in a way that nuclear power never And you think that it it's on the horizon recur where it's >> Yes, I think it will happen sooner than we expect. And when people like Dario Amodai and Sam Alman say um we need some regulation from government, I think we should look very hard at it. And I'm not sure that Jay Clayton's 120 days for us to begin to study and think about it and soft touch is the right balance. Yes, we are in an incredibly important. >> How do you know what they'll come up with, Senator? you don't like it already and it hasn't even started. >> I think it should be more open to a regulatory partnership between government and business. >> You don't think it is open to that right now? >> That's look the initial comments, public comments um from Jay have been we don't need to regulate because we're in this competition with China. I think if we better enforce restrictions on access to cutting edge chips that will restrain some of China's race towards frontier models. Um, look, it's driving a lot of our current economy. >> They they can't get all the tips now already, right? They can't get black well. They can't get >> correct. But we need to maintain that and I would say strengthen. >> If if Democrats win uh the House, >> how do you think that changes this dynamic that we're talking about this 120 days? And if you think they win the Senate, then then how does it change even more? >> Um, I think the likelihood that you'll see regulatory proposals um legislated in Congress goes up, but President Trump will still be president. He has to sign a bill for it to become law. what I've heard >> therefore does that move the needle at all or not really for you >> knowing what you know about how this process actually works >> um given how long it takes to get even widely agreed upon bills signed into law >> um we need consensus and that means we need bipartisanship and that means we need to listen to folks in the last month I've been knocking on doors in Delaware >> listening to concerns and some of it's as direct as we don't want data centers built in our community that raise our electric prices and but more but underlying it is a concern about jobs. You know, my kids have just graduated from college. They took on a lot of debt. I'm worried they're not going to have a job. What's going to happen to this economy? There are hundreds of thousands of jobs likely being displaced by AI as happened in the 90s. There will be big productivity gains, but they may be offset by job losses. We don't really know yet. >> We we haven't seen it yet. What do you and and back to actually before we move down that path back to what Andrew was just talking about, do you think you're basically there's no bills that you could get through Congress with a big enough of of a majority to override a presidential veto? Um, look, President Trump has um an exceptionally loyal Republican majority that has done very little to override him on key issues, even ones that many Republicans disagree with, like the conduct of the war in Iran or um the cost of the tariff war with Canada. Um, but I suspect we're going to see incidents coming up um soon, sooner rather than later that will cause a broader sense of alarm and a willingness. In fact, the Democrats do win in the House. Who knows whether they win in the Senate or not, but >> don't you think that coming into 2028, >> yes, >> that shift will be a major issue. And no, no, but also shifts in terms of how certain Republicans who might have been historically aligned with President Trump >> shift and you're already seeing some of those people shifting now to some degree. >> You're seeing a shift on data centers. The local elections in Delaware, you had Republicans and Democrats running on I will block data centers. So, uh, and you're seeing that in some of the House races. Uh, vulnerable Republicans are saying, "I, too, will work to make sure the data centers don't raise your rates." I think the bigger risks and the bigger rewards are more structural um, and impact jobs and that's going to produce much broader >> deep what what sort of legislation would you craft to try and go after the concern that AI would take away jobs? Because that that's tricky. I I don't know how that >> exactly to me um safety and soundness is the thing that's right in front of us. We we should make sure that models that can do things that are very dangerous are properly tested and constrained. That's our first job. I was struck when Sam Alman came to my office and met with me last year and said, "I think you, Congress, should set up a sovereign wealth fund that takes a 10% stake in the company that I'm leading so that as the company becomes more and more valuable, the average American has a stake in its success." I'm not the only one he said this to. he's published editorials about. >> But you like that idea versus taxation of some of these agencies as has been floated or the idea of just, you know, big taxes on any of the tech companies. >> I think we need to find a way that the average American sees their own future as being stronger and better as AI is deployed. And whether that's through an equity share or taxation, I think we should debate and I think we should have a robust and open discussion. At the end of the day, um it's going to be very disruptive. We all lived through what the 80s and 90s did, what globalization did to the American middle class as we lost millions of manufacturing jobs. This will happen much faster and will have a much broader impact. >> Let me ask you a different question. We had uh Rick Scott on just earlier and he painted Democrats as socialists uh interested in defunding the police and and things of that sort, >> right? >> Uh you're obviously on the left. Do you look at what's happening in the party though and say it's gone too far? And if so, do you feel like you can speak out about that? >> I do. I have and I will. For example, the idea that we want to defund the police, one of the first things President Trump did was to cut hundreds of millions of dollars out of police funding that impacted police in my state. I have long been the co-chair, let me finish, I have long been the co-chair of the law enforcement caucus in the Senate. There is sustained bipartisan support for investing in law. I think the question is there are candidates in this in this in the midterms, this particular midterm. >> Yes. >> Um that are >> self-avoued socialists. There's a big question about the DSA. The big articles about it all the time about the party immigration. I mean, take your pick. >> Where do you think the to the degree you consider yourself a centrist version of the left? Where do you consider what do you consider your role in in whatever that conversation is supposed to be? So, we've got a lot of candidates running for the Senate, right? We're going to have a significant a generational change in the Senate. Um, I just I was here last night with Chris Papis from New Hampshire. I've recently been here with Roy Cooper from North Carolina. Um, we are running centrist candidates. Um, there is a range in both parties, particularly in the House. You've got members at the far left and far right. And the more we spend time focusing on, you know, Marjorie Taylor Green and um Ilhan Omar rather than the vast majority of the members of the House who actually are a part of moving things forward, the more we allow the distraction. >> But even if you're right, don't you think that that that unto itself creates a distraction and frankly allows for someone like Rick Scott to say what he says if you believe that is the case? >> So I started by saying I passed five bipartisan bills last week. Right. At the end of the day, I represent a state that rewards that, that wants and recognizes that I both stand up to Trump in extreme cases where he's violating core values and interests and work across the aisle to get things to his desk for him to sign that solve problems. >> The difference between your answer and John Federman's answer when asked, >> how do you feel about some of these policy positions that >> almost seem like they're seeping into the mainstream? It's like night and day. He's the only person, the only Democratic senator that's actually ardently rejected some of the most outrageous ideas that I mean, nothing's close on the right. You said you you throw an MTG for for some reason or you offiscate to to Donald Trump doing something in your state. >> There's very few people on the right either. there none of the policy. >> I mean, you could saw the Tillis interview uh was just fascinating. >> Tillis can't run again because he's done and now he's and now he's speaking but hurting quite blunt. >> Yeah, he is. Well, it's because they, you know, he got the rug pulled out from under him. But why is that? >> At the end of the day, I have no problem. >> Anti-semitism. Have you spoken out against >> Of course I've spoken out against anti-mitism. You >> didn't say anything today. Joe, the idea that I don't oppose anti-semitism or that I don't support the police strikes me as a caricature of a serious indis on the economy. >> How about Supreme Court? You want to pack that? >> I do not want to pack the Supreme Court. >> You want to change the Supreme Court? But I'll remind you, it was Senator McConnell who changed the rules wildly on how long is it going to take for us to have a full and reasoned consideration of a nominee to the Supreme Court when it was Merrick Garland who was >> talking about nine justices and changing that. You're not talking about >> if you're not willing to review the record. >> You don't think Democrats would have done that? You don't think Democrats would have done that if they were in a position to not put a Republican on the or a Republican? >> No, I don't think we would have done that. anyone's in a position to do it would do it. Democrats. >> So if your argument is politics has completely abandoned principle and it is purely about power, then um heaven help us because that means you're willing to support or tolerate literally anything. I don't like your support of Joe Biden knowing full well that he that he was not up to the task of serious. >> That's where all we cared about is power, right? You're talking about if we've abandoned any type of principle just for power, then then speak to that, Senator. I mean, come on. >> What would you like me to say, Joe? >> I would say, yeah, I probably shouldn't have said that he was as as active and involved as ever. I >> I was with him as you were at Allan Greenspan's service on Monday. We have a president who is falling asleep in cabinet meetings right now. And so when you when you take a P, why is it working? >> You've seen the energy of You've seen the energy of Donald You've seen the energy of Donald Trump where he >> doing awful things, breaking the law and our economy, okay? >> And you're trying to distract from the fact that inflation's growing faster. >> There's no comparison to that. The war lead I did see President Biden at at the Greens Bay memorial. Yes. I I was saddened by the position >> and the the pictures of Trump that you get President Trump calls him Sleepy Joe every chance he gets and yet falls asleep in meetings week after week after week. Who cares? What really matters is the substance and the values behind what they're doing to our country. picking a pointless tariff war with Canada and starting a war with no clear strategy for how to win with Iran, I think, harms the average American in a way that's going to matter in fewer than 30 days. And at the end of the day, I think folks are less entertained by this than they are appalled by it. I'm trying to work hard across the aisle and deliver solutions to problems large and small. and college sports may not be the thing that's going to unlock the future for the American people, but finding a bipartisan path forward on college sports, finding a solution for ALS, trying to fix something that resulted in hostages being taxed, that's what I do every day. So perhaps I don't denounce anti-semitism as loudly as John Federman, but I do get the tip of the iceberg. We barely got to the tip of the iceberg on on some of the policies that some of these candidates are running on, Senator. And it it's a it's >> I'm a candidate. I'm not running on those policies. And we could spend all day talking about far right, far left, but the reason I'm running for reelection is to help bring us back towards a governing center that can actually deliver results for the people I represent. >> Senator, thank you for >> you. Thank you for coming in. And that is Squawk Pod for today. Thanks for listening. Thanks for starting your week with us here. Squawkbox is hosted by Joe Kernan, Becky Quick, and Andrew Ross Sorcin. Tune in weekday mornings on CNBC at 6 Eastern. Follow SquawkPod wherever you get your podcasts, and we'll meet you right back here tomorrow. >> We are clear. Thanks, guys.