Everything’s recording everybody. What now? | The Vergecast

Hello and welcome to the Vergecast, the flagship podcast of automatic meeting recordings. I'm your friend David Pierce and today on the show we're going to talk about wearables, specifically these wearables that are just constantly recording you. Recording your meetings, recording your conversations, in some cases recording everything you do all of the time. There's a question about what recording means, what they're doing with these recordings, where they're storing these recordings, and how we as people feel being the ones doing the recording or the ones on the other end. The Verge V Song has been covering all of these devices, including a pair of meta glasses that have no camera that I'm totally fascinated by. She's going to come on. We're going to try to figure out what to make of all of these new devices. But first, here's everything else happening on The Verge today. I'm Travis Larch, and this is 90 seconds on The Verge for Thursday, October 15th, 2026. Pre-orders for the highly anticipated folding iPhone duo start tomorrow. But pre-orders are already happening. Apple is letting customers pick out their phone, submit their payment information, basically everything up to actually pressing the buy button, which will go live tomorrow morning. And good luck beating all of the AI agents who will also be trying to buy the phone. Speaking of AI, Open AI promised it won't use hardware secrets it allegedly got from some of its employees who used to work at Apple. This is the latest turn in a lawsuit Apple filed against OpenAI back in July. OpenAI made this agreement shortly after a US district judge signaled that he was highly likely to grant an injunction, forcing them to do it anyway. Meanwhile, OpenAI is accusing one of their former employees of sharing confidential files with Apple. Look at it this way. The way things are headed with always listening wearable devices, soon none of us will have secrets. Speaking of secrets, The Verge's Sean Hollister reported today on security vulnerabilities a researcher found with a cute little AI pet called Elico. The toy is made by a company called Energize Labs. And apparently it transcribed millions of conversations left completely unprotected. And it turns out the company was literally profiling its customers based on those conversations. One customer was described as having difficulty trusting family members. [music] And after this, that customer's trust issues will only continue. You can read more at the verge.com. That's 90 seconds on the Verge for Thursday, October 15th, 2026. Okay, let's talk wearables. The Verge V Song is here. Hi, V. >> Hello. >> All right, we need to do this at the beginning of every time you come on the Vergecast. I need a full rundown of all of the gadgets you're currently wearing. I have the uh Rayban Meta Audio. I have uh a Dexcom G7 CGM. I have the Apple Watch Series uh 12. I have the Fitbit Edge. And that's like four four today. >> Kind of a late day for you, honestly. >> Uh yeah, I have uh my Aura ring charging at the moment, so that's why I'm not wearing that. So, you know, a four to Yeah, I'm sure the commenters will be like, "Oh my god, she's falling off." But >> it's I honestly 3 to five is normal for me these days. So, >> that's good. I'm glad to hear it. Uh well, another time I want to talk about the Fitbit Edge because it runs right into a bunch of the stuff we've been talking about in a way that I think is fascinating. But for today, there's two devices and one theme that I want to talk about, uh which is a a thing that you've been covering a lot. And I think the place to start here is with the glasses on your face. The Ray-B band meta audio which are as I understand just the the meta ray bands minus the camera is essentially what what Meta went to do here. Um >> yes >> I am fascinated by the sheer fact that these glasses exist at all. That that Meta is even willing to make a pair of glasses like this as it goes harder and harder into smart glasses. It is like pivoting a lot of its strategy around this as the hardware play. The fact that it is willing to make a pair of glasses without a camera at all strikes me as fascinating. What do you make of the fact that these even exist? >> Well, you know, the timing is very funny, right? Because we've just had this summer of backlash against the meta smart glasses. um you know like however you want to call them all their various like whether it's meta rayband or ray-band meta all of the camera equipped glasses display and on display you know a lot of people had big feelings about them over this last summer >> have you noticed pervert glasses as a phrase going totally mainstream by the way >> yes >> like at least in at least among everyone I know pervert glasses is now just a phrase people say >> yeah it's the new glass hole like we've retired glass hole and we've gone to pervert glass glasses and you know that was a big theme over the past summer and um so these glasses coming out Sans camera it feels like haha very convenient timing right um even though when I went to connect and I talked to Alex Heml who is their VP of wearables he was like these have been in the works for 2 years because that's the typical product timeline um they said that early on uh the audio capabilities. They had underestimated how much people would like just the fact that these could be a pair of discrete open air headphones. They had underestimated that and the fact that when you omit the camera, you open it up to a lot of different styles um that can be a little less chunky, so to speak. These are particularly, you know, it doesn't have my prescription in it, otherwise it would be chunky no matter what with my prescription. Sure. Um, these have like a wire frame on the bottom. None of the smart glasses thus far from Meta have the ability to have a wire frame in any capacity just because of how much tech needs to go into the the frame itself. >> Um, if you look at the temple, they're a lot thinner than the typical Meta glasses are. >> Yeah, I would actually put them closer like on the spectrum between a normal pair of glasses and the normal Meta Ray-B bands. I would put these closer to regular glasses. Yeah. >> Like they're a huge leap forward in looking good on your face. >> Ex. Exactly. And that's kind of their whole like push with with this particular pair of glasses is that, you know, um at Connect they had said that Muse, our cute little dystopian friend Muse is coming to all of the glasses. Um and that would include these ostensibly. Um, right now it's not on there, but the idea is that, okay, you have people who are now very conveniently, even though that wasn't their intent, creeped out by a camera. >> Um, but you can still have a very powerful AI agent embedded into it. It's more fashionable looking. It's more discreet. So, you know, you get people to interact with Muse maybe a bit more if you stuff it in a pair of glasses like these. Um, without the camera, it's a little bit nerfed as to what you can do with AI. Um, some people will be appreciative of that. Some there there are definitely people who would be like, well, why omit the camera at all? This is now a useless pair of glasses. You know, there's there's points. >> I categorically do not agree with the people who say it's nerfed by not having a camera. Like, a we're at a point right now with so many of these AI tools where the visual intelligence stuff they do is not that good. And B, you have a phone. Like the the I need you to take a picture of something problem is solved. We we have the technology for taking a picture of something. And actually, that's a much better way to solve this problem if you ask me because I can point my phone at something and take a picture and I I can tell you what matters by pointing my camera at it. Whereas saying we're going to have this camera on that's looking at everything all the time and we're going to figure out what's important. It doesn't work. Like it doesn't work. And and so to me, the idea of like having no camera and then when I need to take a picture, I can I would argue is actually a better user experience for most people. Not being able to take hands-free pictures is something and there are people who like doing that and I think that's great. But as an AI tool, I'm not bothered at all by losing the camera here. Not at all. >> Yeah, that I I also share in that experience like the title of my review is that I did not miss the camera at all with these glasses. Yeah. >> I I I will say that like um >> for an accessibility use case, the people who really lose out there are are, you know, um the blind and low vision community. Um people who don't have use of their hands uh or have limb differences. Those people Yeah. losing the camera, this isn't a viable uh option for them. >> Totally. >> Uh and that is a very big conversation, a totally different can of worms. This is not necessarily for those people and they have other options. The other kind of feature that was introduced at MetaConnect which is also still not available just yet is FDA cleared hearing assistance. >> So when you think about these in that perspective, if you're someone with mild to moderate hearing loss, >> you pay upfront for uh I think it's an additional $150 fee. It comes to the glasses through software and then these are kind of a discrete pair of hearing assistants uh hearing over the counter hearing aid type uh situation which you know a lot of people I talk to in this industry are very aware of the stigma that comes with hearing aids and even something like a pair of AirPods that have that same functionality. a pair of glasses if you're wearing them, I it reduces the stigma quite a bit for for that kind of use case. And so that's why there's a lot of interest in this type of openear um headphone solution for that particular accessibility use case. None of this like solves the the major problem that a lot of people have with smart glasses. Like I think the whole removing the camera like walking out and about in these glasses I was like h I feel a lot more relaxed. I'm not worried. >> Did you actually I was wondering about this because I know you've struggled with how you feel testing these things out in public around other people. And if you feel like you're obligated to tell everyone everything you have that's recording every time you sit down at a table. Like did you notice the difference having these glasses versus the other ones? >> Yeah. because like there's no it's it's a little hard to accidentally start recording with the camera glasses, but I've done it. It can be done. It happens sometimes. >> And you don't always know that's happening. I've had it happen. I've I've been in conversation with other people who've had that happen and watch it and then you have to be like, "Oh, are you recording me right now? This is an awkward conversation." Um, you know, there's no worrying on my part about having to disclose that because I actually disabled the wake word. So, if I say the wake word for these, it's it's not going to do anything. There's an action button here. So, one, I hate saying the wake word out in public. I feel very lame doing that. So, actually just um programming this action button to summon the AI for me. There's no ambient listening going on until I I trigger it and then it's either going to be the AI um only listening to me for my query or if I'm activating some sort of uh translation feature the way that this translation feature works now I would have to basically inform the person hello I these are translating for me you're disclosing that it's not necessarily um one of those always listening I'm recording every conversation you have type of feature. Although understandably, I think a lot of people in the public would still views the view this as a sort of surveillance tech because they think, "Oh, it's always ambiently listening." You can disable that. I disabled that. Other people wouldn't know, per se, but I know. I I know. And I feel better about that. And um you know, my hair kind of covers the the temples. I know I'm not being a creep. And so my worry about getting punched goes in infinitely down. Like it it is kind of weird cuz I go out now and I'm like I'm not going to be a jerk. I don't record people out in public and if I do I disclose it. Um but I feel like a a a paranoid person because I'll go out testing these glasses and I'll think to myself, okay, well when I'm in public, what I'm going to do in a testing scenario is I'm going to take the toggle that's inside and turn it off. And if someone asks me that these are this, I will take it off and I'll show it to them and then I'll ask them their feelings about that and then I'll use that for my future reporting and it's going to be okay. Which is is a psychological burden to have uh when you have this type of device. >> Yeah. I don't have that with these. I feel great. Like I don't feel like a like >> in in the comment section some of our readers were just like you're still a pervert. You're still a creep wearing these. And I would gently say, "No, I'm not because again, I have disabled the wake word. Uh, it's not ambiently listening to anybody and I can't record any footage of you. There's no transcripts being generated. I feel great. I can just listen to my podcasts and my music when I'm out on my daily walks." And that's generally the basic function of this because um the AI model that is on here, Muse Spark, it a little dumb. Yeah, >> it's less dumb than before, but still kind of dumb. >> It is very funny to me that we're we're going to back our way into what I think was a good idea the first time. Like this idea of audio glasses, which let you take calls and listen to music on your glasses, is not new and it's not an AI idea, but it didn't work before and and it didn't really get any kind of marketing muscle or excitement behind it. But like the Bose frames, >> I mean, that was a long time ago now that those were out. >> It was like seven years. Yeah. >> And it's very funny that we're going to we're going to sort of overshoot with what these glasses could be and then the whole industry is going to sort of slowly back its way up back to that seven-year-old idea, which I think was a good idea the whole time. It's going to be really interesting to see all of that. It's like hybrid cars, right? Like everybody, we way overshot and then everybody's going to come back and be like, "Oh, actually the middle ground here is kind of nice. Let's linger there for a little while." Yeah. No, that's like a really good analogy because I loved the Bose frames when they first came out. I was like at the time, but my headline there was like I was so ready to dunk on these, but actually I kind of love them. You're >> rocking. [laughter] >> And it was surprising how much I love them cuz I'm someone who goes out and I walk a lot. Um, and if you are someone who walks a lot, you want like I use this example every single time I come on here. [gasps] North Jersey drivers, maniacs, maniacs, all of them. Um, and I I really need that situational awareness while I'm out and about. I wouldn't say these are great if you're just like in the office listening to your tunes. The sound lequ sound leakage is real. If you're on the subway, >> sorry, you still need your AirPods. It's not going to work on a subway. But if you're just out and about walking, trying to get your steps in like many of us are, and you just kind of want to listen to stuff while you're on the go, but still um engage with your surroundings. If you're at home, I I love being at home and using these while I'm listening to an audio book or a podcast because I can still hear my spouse when they want my attention. If my cat is like yowling at the moon because he's hungry, I'll know and he won't like knock over uh from the table. It's great. It it it is like it I have this problem at home where my spouse and I are always listening to stuff. So, we have our AirPods in and then we'll be screaming for each other cuz we're in a very vertical house and we're like, "Hey, can you hear me? Can you hear me?" And we'll be running up and down floors. I don't have that problem if they want my attention and I have this on. It's It's actually quite great. >> Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack DMs? At Lassian's teamwork graph pulls all the pieces together from Jira, Confluence, GitHub, Slack, and more so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share the context with agents you already use like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot. Assign them work directly or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping with Jira. Learn more at jira.com. That's jir.com. Support for the show comes from Granola. 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Just head to granola.ai/verge. That's granola.ai/verge to get your time back. Go to granola.ai/verge and try it on your next call. you've you've poked at the big thing I want to talk about here, but I do very briefly want to talk about one more gadget, which is uh something from Amazon B that is a name I never thought I would hear again, but I actually don't know what this is. So, I just want you to tell me live what Amazon B AI thing is coming out because I assume it fits into this narrative a little bit too. >> Yes. So, um, Amazon just announced the Amazon B Frontier, which last year B was its own company and then Amazon acquired it. And it's basically one of those always listening, always recording, uh, you could call it a surveillance wearable. Sure, let's go with that. But it's sort of like Plaude Note, all of these note-taking apps. And uh it'll give you to-dos, summaries of your day. Very similar to kind of what Apple has proposed for the Apple Watch Series 12 and Ultra 4 with audio intelligence. Uh a bit different because you do get these like transcripts of your day that you know you can kind of assign speakers to. You have to train it on your voice, but it can do that. Costs um $74.99 and it's it's sort of what I tested last year. So, if you read the review that's up on the site, you get a gist of the features. There are some changes like supposedly it's better at distinguishing your voice versus broadcast voice now. So, hopefully less fanfiction gets written. Um, cuz last year it was just like, hey, hey V, be sure to take into account the SEPTA strikes for your students. Uh, >> I thought you were having conversations with the with the news on TV basically >> or or or severance. I was watching Severance at the time and like my to-dos were just like make sure that your innie and your Audi are on the same page and stuff like that. Um, so they say that that's basically been fixed uh a bit, but it it is uh yikes. And they also have a kind of a version that doesn't look so much like a Fitbit cuz the the B Frontier looks like a Fitbit. They have something called the uh B Eclipse, which is a MagSafe thing that you stick on the back of your phone. And you know, >> that's another thing that's everywhere all of a sudden. Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh the difference here is that this is going to have a desktop app. And there's going to be a pro subscription um which has integrations. And what are those integrations? Aha. This is why Amazon wanted a VIB because based on the conversations and the notes that it takes during the day, it'll be like, "Oh, you talked to someone about toilet paper. Here's a handy dandy little Amazon thing so that you can do Amazon shopping. And now, bada bing, bada boom, you can buy through Amazon the toilet paper that you mentioned in a conversation. >> V, I spent so much of my time telling people that their phone isn't listening to them. And you're telling me Amazon is shipping a gadget that makes your phone listen to you and sell you. >> It's a thing that's on your wrist that connects to your phone, but >> or importantly is on somebody else's wrist. So, okay. So this is this is the big thing that I want to get into here which is basically this question of what is being recorded in the world and should that be allowed who's doing it and and look we we could talk about this forever but I want to talk about one particular slice of it that I know you've been thinking a lot about which is I think if if you if even if you're a person who thinks it is horrible and wrong for you to be taking video of me all day every day and I think a lot of people fall into that category. um these tech companies are trying to find a middle ground, right? Where they say we're going to in some other way capture lots of information or we're going to record things but we're not going to store those things. We want to we want to be able to give you this kind of information without this permanent record or transcript of everything that's going on. And will that make you feel less creeped out by these devices that are constantly paying attention to you? you wrote a a story for the site a couple of weeks ago arguing that maybe that is not a distinction we can make whether technically or as humans in the world but I'm curious how you're thinking about it right now particularly in light of devices like these where meta is saying you can turn the thing off we we won't we're not going to be listening or watching even if we are we're not going to do anything with the video it's just it's just for other stuff everybody is trying to find this middle ground do you think it exists >> I think they're asking the wrong question to be quite frank like um you know they're kind of taking this clever route of litigating the definition of a recording and so Apple is doing it. Um, I asked uh be the B people yesterday uh at Amazon uh like you know how are you handling this recording definition thing? And they're like we don't record the audio file. You just have the transcript. And so it's like okay >> well so wait so by definition you are recording the audio file. You're just then transcribing it and throwing it away. Like if you're not recording audio you can't get a transcript. That's that's technology. like >> there there and there you have it, right? Like Apple is Apple is doing the same thing. Basically, they're saying like we have this private compute. >> Um the raw audio file is recorded and then it's processed, but once it's processed, it's deleted. So therefore, there's no recording that's been stored and all you have is a transcript of dubious levels of attribution. So Apple is taking the route of saying that nothing is attributed. And you know that feels like an oblique nod to um dual consent recording laws. Uh various states like California, both parties have to consent to being recorded. New York, New Jersey, only one one party has to consent to being recorded. And the whole thing is that can it be subpoenaed? Right? So from a legal definition, can you use it in a case if it doesn't say who said what and is just a highlevel summary? You know, a lot of these companies are arguing like, "No, that's not a recording. That is just a summary, and a summary is not a recording." But on the opposite side of that, you can just be like, >> you're trusting the AI to be super intelligent in in discerning what's sensitive information and what's not sensitive information and how to attribute that or not. And I'm I'm guessing any shrewd lawyer would still try to subpoena that anyway, regardless of whether it's admissible or not. I mean, but also forget the lawyers. Like, I think the to your point about the Apple stuff, I think the response to the audio intelligence stuff on the Apple Watch was really interesting to me because Apple's deeply technical explanation about all the data it's not storing didn't make anybody feel any better. The idea that I can sit here and replay the last 15 seconds of our conversation freaked people out in like a really visceral way. Freaked people out. Support for the show comes from IDRA by Palo Alto Networks. Every new cloud workload or AI agent your team sends out is another identity that gets permanent access to your systems. [music] And in 2026, those non-human identities with access outnumber actual human identities 109 to one. You need a tool built to manage them all. Human, machine, and AI. That's exactly what by Palo Alto Networks was designed to do. It's one identity platform for all and it outshines legacy tools that were only built to manage human employees. How does it work? Well, IDRA replaces permanent permissions with dynamic access. So, you can lock down every identity without slowing down your own business. With IDRA, you get unified control by replacing siloed AM or identity and access management, PAM, modern privilege access management, and governance tools, all with a single control plane. And it does that across human, machine, and AI identities. Secure every identity at your organization with IRA by Powalto Networks. Learn more at powaltoetworks.com/ir. Again, that's powaltoetworks.com/dir A. [music] To me, the the thing I keep thinking about is the difference between listening and recording. And I think people are spooked by things that are listening irrespective of whether they're recording. Just the idea that you are listening to me is a pro is a problem, right? and and and forget video recording. Like that's a whole other can of worms that I think my my running theory is that eventually in some meaningful way the market is just going to reject the camera first stuff. Like I don't think we're coming back from pervert glasses and I just don't think the industry has realized it yet. Um but the audio stuff, everybody wants there to be a way through this that threads the needle that kind of works. And I just think we're still at a point now where people cannot get past, well, what do you mean it's listening all the time. Forget the output of that listening. The existence of that listening freaks people out. >> Yeah. And it gets to this whole actually kind of severance like uh a thing where it's like yes, your phone can record externally, but everything on your phone and how you use it like I hold up my phone and you immediately know what I'm doing. Right. >> Put it in a wearable form factor. And not only does it become more discreet, you just don't necessarily know what I'm doing. That's not reached peak consciousness in in the public yet. Yes, in our in our little space of nerd, the nerd universe, we kind of know what we're talking about, but uh you talk to someone's grandpa, they have no idea what or like generally the grandpa doesn't have any idea um that the glasses can do these things. >> But that's why I think the watch was such an interesting one. like the the watch is a totally mainstream device and and everybody has it and it's like you're telling me that by default it's now going to be listening to me. >> It's not by default. Um it's it's actually something you have to opt into >> but not each time like like this is it's not a it's a thing you it's not a thing you have to sit down and be like I am now doing it. Welcome to our meeting. uh not for Siri recap, but the uh live rewind, it will pop up a chime and there'll be like a little mic that records when you do it. >> But it's not uniform, right? It's not uniform. There's a problem of educating the mass public about what how these works, which I've struggled with because like I have to sit there and I have to learn all the nitty-gritty ins and outs. But like regardless of that, the the thing that it really boils down to me is that all of these devices used to just be about you and your data. You can do whatever you want with your data. And I think as a society, we know that we should be a little more circumspect and a little more cautious about what we do with our data. But there is this idea that it's my data. I can do whatever I want with it. What this new class of devices is asking is for you to be a steward of not only your data but everyone else's data. So suddenly I'm not uh putting only my data at risk. I am putting your data at risk. I am uh basically an unintentional spy out in the world. um and nobody necessarily knows and we don't have this cultural language to basically um convey that I am not a creep like cuz the creeps are out there and like the the metaphor that I use a lot is um and I'm I'm I'm stealing it from a different conversation but like let's say you have a bowl of M&M's and 10% of those M&M's are poison and they're mixed in with the M&M's that are not poison. You have people wearing glasses and let's say every single one of them can record in some capacity either audio or camera. 10% of the people are going to be creeps about it. You don't know just by looking at someone walking down the street which one are creeps and which ones are not. And this is a problem that the accessibility community is dealing with right now because if you look at someone and they are visibly blind or they are visibly uh handicapped in some way, you are probably going to go, "Oh, they have a camera in their glasses. They're probably not a creep. They are probably using them for accessibility reasons." However, accessibility is a spectrum and not everyone there is such a thing as invisible disabilities. You know, unfortunately, there are cases where people are like, "Hey, you don't look like you need accessibility features, so you must be a pervert." And this is why I, you know, online, I'm just like, "Please don't punch people who are wearing these glasses." I know why everyone is saying that. I know we're trying to express our discomfort with this new uh uh type of wearable surveillance, but please just don't punch people because you just don't know why they have them. uh and the vast majority of people are not the creeps uh out there. They're using it primarily for their own private use. But because 10% of the M&M's are poisoned in this scenario, you just don't know. And I'm very empathetic to that and I think these are super valid concerns. But, you know, to get back to the original point, I don't think the tech companies are asking the right question here, which is they're going like, "We've made it uh through some technical thing to be private." Well, you've made it private for the owner. you haven't addressed at all the societal concerns. You haven't addressed at all like what the etiquette should be because if you think about these always listening AI note takers, they make a lot of sense in a business in a business perspective. I think as journalists, we already disclose stuff um that's recording on the record, off the record, we tell our sources, all of these things. for us to have these tools in those scenarios. I think the vast majority of journalists would find that extremely useful and I think that would apply to students and classes, uh, lecturers, business meetings, all of those scenarios. Um, you can talk about Zoom recordings and Gemini recordings for Google Meets. A lot of us have basically gone, yeah, that's super convenient. It makes sense to have a transcript because in that societal instance, we all understand that the recording is for this purpose and it's going to be used for notes and it's not going to be distributed and used in a nefarious way, but they're doing it 24/7. >> So, but are we do you feel like we're just barreling towards a world where you have to assume that's happening? Whether either your own devices are recording you or someone else is, right? Like 10% is is a good example, right? If you're if you're in a restaurant, should you assume that one in 10 people has one of these lifeloging devices and thus is capturing you in some way? Like I had a I had a moment the the other day where I was walking my kids up the sidewalk to daycare uh and somebody comes running out of his house um and he's like, "Hey, I have a question for you." And it turns out he had a video of me on his Ring doorbell from 3 days earlier right before his car got hit. And so he was like, "Is this you?" and he showed me a video of myself from 3 days earlier walking my kids to daycare. And this is such a like innocuous thing, perfectly nice guy just asking if I like saw what happened to his car. Um, I have not been able to stop thinking about it because I was like, "Oh, this person is recording me." Every single day when I take my kids to daycare, this person is recording me. And it's just it is the sort of thing that when that veil gets lifted, even in some small way, it gets very hard to stop noticing. And I do wonder if we are just running towards that with these lifelonging wearables in the same way >> we are. Um I actually just the other day had the same experience that you did kind of like where I was just walking through my neighborhood and I took a different route and a house said you are now being recorded from a Ring camera just announced it and I was like oh I hate that because I was >> at least it announces it. That's something >> not every house does, but like that particular house, I was like, is it a good thing that it announced it and made me aware? Because it changed my behavior. And that's what all of these things >> are going to do. And that's what I think people are really kind of rebelling against. It just changes your behavior. Your guard goes up. You don't feel like you can just be yourself and like just relax. Um, so I think that is what people are viscerally reacting to. And it's something that the tech companies are like, "Oh, huh, but why is that a problem?" And it's like, you guys need to talk to the average person a bit more to find out why that's a problem. But it's it's it's one of those things where let's peel back the layers a little bit. And what do they want? They want data because the data makes the AI more useful. For your AI assistant to be the best possible personal assistant ever, it has to know everything about you. But not only everything about you, everything about the people in your lives that you interact with regularly. So that's the thing that we're grappling with and I think that's something that society needs to weigh in on because otherwise the tech companies will make the decision for us and I don't think that they should have unilateral uh ability to make that decision alone. That is something that the average person has to has to weigh in on and we have to collectively have this discussion publicly and uh talk about how we want to use this tech because I'm just sitting here screaming internally every single day now going like I started this job tracking steps and now I'm an inadvertent private spy just walking about not wanting to. Did I consent to this? Kind of. Not really. At the same time, I have existential crises every day. >> All I will say is you should have all of these existential crises out loud so that be can hear you and maybe you can just slowly start to infect the system that way. >> They're they're sending me one. So, we'll see. I'm curious to see how it's changed from last year cuz last year it was very much like this thing has written fanfiction about my life and the ways that it was actually truthful was kind of uncomfortable for me personally. Um, we'll see. >> Yeah. >> Uh, love that it'll just be like, "Oh, V talked about nail glue. Here's an Amazon popup for nail glue." >> V. Yeah, you'll have to report back. I'm very curious on the weird stuff it tries to sell you. But, uh, so keep me posted. >> Sure. [laughter] Signing off from the wearable surveillance state. [music] >> Yeah. Go put on some more gadgets. It's going to be great. We'll see you later. Thanks, V. >> Bye. >> All right. That's it for the show. Thank you again to V for being here and thank you as always for listening. This is a category, as you just heard, I want to hear lots of opinions about. I think this is a kind of device that all of these companies want to put on our faces and on our wrists and all over our bodies for a variety of reasons. And there are real honest to god good use cases for them. But they all come with this big messy set of trade-offs. And I really want to know how all of you feel about it. So send us an email vergecast.com. Call the hotline 86611. weigh in on all of this and everything else. And [music] like V said, please don't punch each other in the face. And as always, the best thing you can do to support all of what we're up to here at The Verge is to subscribe to The Verge. The Verge.com/subscribe. It gets you all of our podcasts ad free, including this one. It gets you all of our exclusive newsletters. It gets you all of our coverage of everything, all of the time. The verge.com/subscribe. Thank you in advance. The Vergecast is a Verge production and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. This episode is produced by Josh Kahas, Kabir Chopra, Eric Gomez, Brandon Kefir, Travis Laruk. See you tomorrow. Rock and roll.