Mindy Grossman: I quit with no job lined up. The next day, Ralph Lauren called.

When you were starting out, that resiliency, was that your superpower? >> You know, it's why is someone going to believe in you if you don't believe in yourself? And [music] it's not that I haven't had moments of what am I doing? This ability, because of what I went through, [music] to have the perspective of risk-taking and boldness, taking the risk [music] of walking away from something. I was at that company for a year, and I ended up walking away, [music] and I knew that a woman was never going to get chosen for those roles. >> [music] >> Was it hard to do it? Now a partner and vice chair of Consello, as well as on the boards of Fanatics and VF Corp, one of my favorite companies, I should say. Mindy Grossman's career is the epitome of achieving success at the highest level of corporate America. From leading global apparel as a vice president at Nike, to taking IAC retail public and scaling Home Shopping Network as CEO, to orchestrating the massive digital rebrand of WWE as CEO, Mindy has pretty much done it all. Along the way, she's gotten to work alongside iconic leaders such as Tommy Hilfiger, Ralph Lauren, Oprah, and Barry Diller. Somehow, I was able to get Mindy to come on Power Players with me. Not sure how, but here she is with me at Yahoo Finance HQ in New York City. It is so good to see you. >> appreciate that. >> Yeah, like I still I still How did I get you to do this? Like How [laughter] are you even here? >> Oh, you know I love having conversations with you. >> Oh, I I haven't seen you, I think, physically since 2020, and you were talking about WW and Oprah and all these >> I I know. I looked back. It was January 2020. We were in person, and we were just getting ready to kick off the nine-city arena tour with Oprah. >> like yesterday. >> It doesn't. [laughter] It's crazy. >> for a while, right, doing that? >> Yeah, the finale was March 7th in Denver. I literally flew back to New York that Wednesday, had to shut the offices down, and then we did 30,000 in-person workshops a week in 13 different countries. And it was literally one of the moments of my career, and I said, "We have to solve this problem. Yes, there's financial issues, but I can't leave our members alone when they're going through a crisis." And I remember I called Eric Yuan at Zoom. And I said, "I need your help." And we shifted all of our assets to focus on this. And in 6 days, we converted every one of those workshops to virtual. I will never forget that. >> You know, at the time at the time you were you were running a business, you're trying to figure all these things out as we all were at the time, too. I mean, we moved live programming. I was doing live programming off my now ex-girlfriend's kitchen table. I mean, this is just really weird stuff. Do you Did Did you realize at the time you were changing lives of human beings in real time? >> We were. And you know, it's interesting when when you go back and look at not just COVID, but you know, I took HSN I public in August '08, 2 weeks before the Lehman bankruptcy. But you know, everything we tried to do at WW, and the reason I joined Oprah on the transformation to not just be the number one weight loss program, you know, in the world, but how could we be more holistic and really help people lead better lives. And it was, you know, very personal for me. You know, my mother had her first heart attack at 50, was obese, didn't take care of herself. And, you know, I wanted to be able to do something that would truly have impact. But, I didn't realize how much that would be in the almost 5 years that I was there. But, that's what we tried to do. And whether it was doing the tour with Oprah from morning till night, having people reassess their lives and walk out literally transformed. You saw it. And people determined to live a better life and be healthier. That's just so powerful. And look, it's everything today. Look how focused you are, right? On health and wellness and everything you do. >> I'm convinced I'm going to live to 200, Mindy. I know it's not going to happen, though. >> Well, you know, rightly so. But, the most important thing right now is not lifespan, it's healthspan. How are you really living your best life as long as you can? And you know, I'm still very passionate about that, as well. >> I can't keep the pains away. Like Like when does this does this get worse as I get as I get older? Like it's like whack-a-mole. Like every day there's like a new pain in my arm or something for lifting a weight. It's ridiculous. >> No, but you know, I I say the only thing, you know, I take and I'm older than you, is >> I I didn't say that. >> I can admit it. >> Okay. >> Is vitamins. >> Okay. >> Right? And I just want to be healthy and be with my family and, you know, my granddaughters and all of that. And you know, set an example. >> I love what you're doing with your daughter on Instagram. I think it's awesome. I want to get into your like life a little bit, but I had to just go there right off the jump cuz I I'm kind of obsessed with these videos on Instagram, to be honest with you. Take us through like where did that idea even come from? Because like she's trying on your iconic like wardrobes I've been seeing you wear since the days I was following you at the Home Shopping Network. >> Yeah, this has been crazy beyond anything I ever expected. So, my daughter is a momfluencer, right? She's got kind of a funny sense of humor and it's about her workouts and healthy living, but it's also about being a dance mom and it's also about carline and it's also about her recipes. Like it's fantastic. >> her organize like her living room. I'm like, oh wow, I I don't have that type of living room, but like I need to organize things like that. >> obsessed. Obsessed. And she's she's so fantastic. So, they were coming up here to visit. We have a home in the Hudson Valley and it's where I have my big cedar closet. And growing up in fashion, I have been collecting since the '80s, okay? Like crazy. She goes, "Mom, I have an idea." I'm like, "Lizzie, what?" She goes, "We're going to film me trying on all your vintage and having the conversation." I said, "Okay." So, we start pulling everything out and she tapes everything and she edits and she posts the first one. And it goes viral. She posts the second one where I was wearing this long dress and this bright blue fake fur coat. It had a million views. And Melissa Rivers sent a note. It was like me and Joan and my mom and and I'm like, is this real? Like when did I get into the influencer? So, we've now done two series and when I go down to Florida, I think September 1st, I have to bring two suitcases so we can continue filming. We've got people saying, "Do you want to do a show?" And in a million years, it was not >> You're an entrepreneur now. >> You're an entrepreneur. You're a TV entrepreneur. That's what we're calling you. You have like a This is It's cool. >> having so much fun, and you know, she's so good at it. >> Where did that sense of style come from for you? >> You know, I think it was growing up in the fashion industry. And I'd say, you know, I worked for Jeffrey Banks, and then I worked for Ron Chereskin, and then I worked for Willie Smith in the '80s. And his perspective was that fashion came from the street up, not couture down, which is everything we think about today, but it was really different then. First designer to do uh collaborations with artists, like Keith Haring and Barbara Kruger and Christo. And it kind of was like liberating and gave me the confidence to find out what style was me and make me comfortable. And, you know, there are things that would never be me and things that I'm really comfortable wearing that are a little off. And, you know, it was the '80s. Come on. So. >> the guys had the power suit, but it feels like they had one. I have like maybe three power suits, but I don't have You have power outfits. You have ensembles. I mean, following your stuff for like 20 years, Minnie. I mean, every photo of you is like in a different, amazing, like super cool, like power outfit. >> Well, I just think it's fun. >> It is fun. >> And it's about confidence. It's about making yourself feel good but being who you are. Like, there are things that I wouldn't wear. Like, everybody's wearing the like little floral cotton dresses right now. It's just not going to be my look. Now, it may look great on somebody else. >> Yeah, I can't wear baggy pants. Like, all the guys wear baggy dress pants. >> No, don't do it. >> Gap's CEO is trying to get me to wear like these baggy jeans. I mean, he's a nice fellow, but like I can't wear the jeans. >> Richard's great. >> He's a great He's a great guy, but I cannot do baggy jeans. I did them in the like late '90s in high school. I'm not going back there. Um you know, I was joking around at the top, Mindy, like how I got you in here. Like you and I would talk on earnings calls on the phone. You would come on our very shows when we were launching, and I was very appreciative, but we never had the time to actually talk about your career. So, you get shot of a can, you're talking about profit margins and cash flow and revenues, all those boring things. Where did the resilience come from over the course of your career? Look at everything you have done, and out of everything that you have done, like there there's just a certain resilience. Where Where does that come from? >> I actually have to go all the way back, and I sometimes like to say my CEO journey started when I was 3 days old. So, you know, my mom, her first father died of a heart attack when she was 3. And then when she was in her senior year of high school, her mother, who'd remarried, had a stroke. So, my mother had to quit high school to be the caregiver. My father finished high school, went into the Air Force. They got married. She was 18, he was 22. My father worked nights in the produce business, sending the trucks out. My whole life he worked nights. And [snorts] all they wanted was a child. And they tried. And they tried, and 12 years went by, and they couldn't afford the cost of adoption. 12 years later, my father went into work at midnight. And his boss, who owned the company, was there, and he got very nervous. Why is my boss there? And he came up to my father, and he said, "Donny, I can't see you suffer like this." And he literally handed my father an envelope. And in the envelope was all of the expenses to adopt a child. And I was the child. >> I never knew that at all. Oh. >> And I was adopted when I was 3 days old. I always remember knowing, but my parents from the time I I can remember anything said, "You've been given a gift. We've been given a gift, and you have to use that gift to have impact on others. You can do anything you put your mind to. We believe in you, and you have to believe in yourself." And that was the mantra that was in my head. And so, I was pretty serious growing up. I ended up graduating high school as a junior at 16, started my freshman year in college, was planning to be a lawyer, got engaged when I was 19, and the whole path was set out. And then I made the decision that for my senior year, I I wanted to go away. I I needed time. So, I transferred to George Washington University. And after my first semester, my senior year, I had a complete pivot. And I said, "This is not the path I want, and if I don't change it now, I I I don't know what's going to happen." So, imagine calling your parents, especially given my circumstance, and I said, "I have something to tell you. I'm breaking my engagement. I'm not getting married. I'm not going to law school in the fall." >> It really hit them hard. >> And I'm leaving school right now, and I'm moving to New York. I want to be in business, but I want to be in a business that has some form of creativity attached to it. Silence at the other end of the phone. But I said, "I know it's the right thing to do. So, I literally showed up in New York in 1977. And uh I started looking for a job. I said, there's two industries I'm kind of interested in. One is publishing, cuz that was like really the thing. >> That's magazines out there. You guys remember that, right? >> the thing. And fashion. >> Okay. >> But the publishing world, the only young girls they were hiring were like the society girls. And I was certainly not that. I think I had saved up from working starting summer since I was 14, cuz my parents had no resources, like a thousand dollars or something. And um so I started interviewing in fashion, and I ended up having an interview with uh Fred Rossini was his name. He was the president of international for a company called Manhattan Industries that Larry Leeds ran. And it was for his executive assistant. I get through the interview, and at the end of the interview, he said, well, do you take shorthand? I said, no, but I take fast longhand. And so to this day I say, I've never been completely qualified for any role, but if I believe in it, I know I can do it. That's what I'm going to present myself as. >> In those early when you were starting out, that resiliency, cuz it's something I I personally identify with for a lot of different reasons, but was that your superpower? Is that how you were able to get your foot in the door? >> I definitely think that was one of them, but I also think it goes back to self-belief. You know, it's why is someone going to believe in you if you don't believe in yourself? And it's not that I haven't had moments of what am I doing? But this ability because of what I went through, to have the perspective of risk-taking and boldness, or the essence of transformation, and not taking a risk is often riskier, especially in business, than taking the risk if you've really thought it out, and then figuring out if how to pivot if you need to. Um but, taking the risk of walking away from something. I was at that company for a year, and I ended up walking away. I wanted to get into sales, and I knew that a woman was never going to get chosen for those roles. So, I went to work for another company, and that's also been a factor in my career, of being able to walk away if my values are compromised, or if I don't believe that this is going to be the right long-term play, and I think too many people just stay. And you know, you've got to make those big decisions when they are presented to you, whether it's to take the risk, or to walk away, or to pivot. And that's definitely been a factor in my career. >> I'm thinking and look, I clearly I have no papers in front of me. I'm not, you know, memorizing any questions, but now I'm thinking how absurd I was to ask you about the WW name change, like the day after you did it. Hearing this story, which I didn't know any of this about you. That must have just been another decision for you. Not that you didn't take it seriously, but you know, whatever. And you did it. >> Yeah. >> Was it hard to do it? >> Look, it's always hard to create significant change, right? And the one thing I've always said, whenever I have to make a decision, and this was something very Oprah in the time I got to know her, she's very much believes in purpose filters. Like questions that you ask yourself before you make an important decision, whether it's in life or in business. You need to have your own personal purpose filter. You know, there are decisions that I made at certain points in my life that maybe I wouldn't have made at other points. But what are those filters, right? And I I have a process that I go through it, and one of the things I've always tried to say is that no matter what the decision, it's okay to be provocative. I never want to be polarizing, for example. The last question in that purpose filter is always, will it make me proud? Will it make us proud? And it doesn't mean everything is going to be 100% right. But then you acknowledge that it's not, and you either make a change or you modify or you pivot. And that's okay. That's okay. You want to be in an organization where people feel empowered. They believe in what you're doing. They understand the strategy, but they're also empowered to take risks. But because of the environment, they're also confident to admit when something isn't right. The worst thing you can have in an organization is fear. Because what happens then that people hide things, and they don't want to come out with it. And there have been town halls where I have recognized something that didn't work. But we learned from it. And then we pivoted. And you can sometimes even celebrate that. >> Like Warnaco and Linda Wachsner? >> Oh my god. >> Wasn't the toughest boss in America at the time? >> Yeah, she was on the cover. Yeah. But you know, that was a big decision for me. I you know, I'd been working for Tommy Hilfiger, who I adore, is still a close friend. And it was when he was a rocket ship, when Silas and Lawrence came in with Tommy and Joel and bought the company. And I kept getting a phone call. Would I go and be the president of Chaps Ralph Lauren? And I go, I'm in this great place. I'm not. Finally, they called and said, "Would you just meet with Ralph?" And his partner, Peter Strom, at the time. And I said, "You know, yes, I will." And I went and I met with them. And Ralph is very convincing and inspiring. And I said, "You know what? There's not a single woman who has run a menswear company. Not one. And I know how to turn this business around. I want to be a CEO. I know I could do this. So, I decided to take the role. I knew that, you know, it was a division of Warnaco, and Linda was a very unique boss. But I said, "I know I can do this." And when I took over the company, it was doing about $20 million, losing money. And in 3 years, it was doing $200 million making a lot of EBITDA. >> Mhm. >> And I had got promoted to not only being the president of Chaps, but I was running the entire menswear portfolio at the company. But after 3 years my contract was up. I came home one night. I said to my husband I'm resigning tomorrow. I don't have another job. But I know I'm doing the right thing because the values of the company do not align with my values. And if I stay I'm basically complicit. And this is not who I am and what I want. And I went in the next morning and I had a my daughter was about three. So I had work. And I went to resign and she said to me uh are you resigning? I said yes. And she said you either have another job, you're independently wealthy, or you're stupid. And I said or D, none of the above. And I was escorted out by security that afternoon and there I was standing on Park Avenue between 37th and 38th. I said I know I made the right decision for me. And the next day Ralph computer called me. Said look, we're devastated you were leaving. Look at what you did to the business, but if you're going to work anywhere we want you to come work for us. We're not even sure of the role. We're going to make you the head of new business development for Ralph Lauren. And we want you to work on potential new business opportunities. And so I made a decision to go. And I spent a year looking at a lot of different things and ended up writing the business plan for Polo Jeans company, found the licensee, and then they asked if I would go be the CEO and start it up, which I did. And I like to say I now have such respect for entrepreneurs because I know how hard it is to do a startup, and I didn't have to worry about raising capital, right? >> Yeah. >> And we went from zero to almost what? $500 million in a period of less than 5 years. We were potentially planning to take the company public, and >> you do that? How do you go from like nothing to $500 million in sales? Like what's what's the tactic? >> Well, look, the good news is this is a loved and beloved brand, right? So, the key was really how to focus on significant differentiation within the denim category and sportswear category as a whole, and how did we literally go to the roots of the brand? If you think about it, it's what Michelle Gass is doing at Levi's today. What really makes it Ralph Lauren, but is going to differentiate itself? How can it be accessibly aspirational, right? How could it be marketed in a way that people want to be part of it, and that's what we were able to do, and we assembled an incredible team, most of which I'm still have a relationship with to this day, and who've gone on and done a lot of great things. We built unbelievable in-store experiences. You know, I even remember one thing, we were the first people we actually did a Polo Jeans like vending machine in the shops for all our caps. Like things that were not being done and it was incredibly exciting. >> I want to work backwards. So, Michael Rubin at Fanatics founder, Oprah, Ralph Lauren, Tommy Hilfiger, Barry Diller, I'm sure I'm missing a few folks. How These are like iconic iconic leaders. How have you How do you gain the trust of folks like this? >> So, I think it's a couple of things. Because I've always worked for visionary founders, I've I've learned so much about what truly makes them unique. And as you know, they're all very different. >> Yeah. >> But the part that's real and true and why they've been successful is the part that's authentic and real and true. And they're able to block out the noise of another shiny penny and they've stayed true to what they stand for and what their brands and businesses have stood for. And I've taken so much of that and I like to say that it's made me what I call an intrapreneur. Um even though I wasn't the founder, right? That's my philosophy in business when I've gone in, whether it's to transform a business or turn around a business or start a business, I've taken those learnings which have given me the bravery or you would sometimes to do the things, to take the risks, to be able to move forward, but it's been the focus. It's been the focus. >> Has it been hard to be the voice in the room where the founder says, "I want to run through that wall, but maybe you're the one saying, you know what? Maybe I want to run through that wall just yet." >> You know, one of the things I learned in even working with founders, I have such respect, but I don't put anything through a negative lens. I put it through a positive lens, even when I'm trying to add my perspective to something that I think may not be the right thing at that moment. But what I'll do is listen and provide perspective and alternatives. And that's how people actually have learned to work with me because when you have the big ideas, the worst thing that you want somebody to do is cut you off immediately. And whether it's my CFO or my head of HR, my, you know, head of marketing, um I surround myself with people who really have a bigger set of understanding and are willing to listen to it. So, I'll never forget I'm at WW and we, you know, were finding the right ambassadors, right? The ones who might be a little provocative, but not polarizing because we wanted to bring a new audience, but we didn't want to alienate our existing audience. And I remember being at the board meeting where I presented to the board that we were signing DJ Khaled as an ambassador for the brand. It was after he had his first child, he wanted to be healthy, he wanted and [snorts] uh was not what you would normally have expected. And we were going live in January 18. And it was when we launched Freestyle, this new program. >> And I'm like, we're doing this. And the good news is it went crazy and it was fantastic and he was great, but I remember walking into my CFO's office, Nick Hodgkin. He's now the CFO at Condé Nast, interestingly enough. >> And I said, Nick, I have an idea. We need to buy a semi-truck and we're going to convert it into a DJ food truck and we're going to take it on tour with Khaled and we're going to do events at every stop on the tour, okay? And instead of saying, what you crazy, he said, let me let's walk through this. Do you think we need to buy it? Could we maybe rent it? Long story short, we ended up buying the semi-truck. But he wanted to hear the whole thing out and hear me walk through the rationale and why it would be something that could be an asset, not just as an expense, and it could bring right, more consumers in and create awareness for the brand. And those are the things that you have to do, especially with visionary people or even a designer, right? They're going to come out with a whole new concept of wide-leg jeans. >> I'm not going to live that one down. Clearly, I'm [laughter] not. I can't do it. >> Wide-leg jeans. And it works. >> Uh it works. It's selling over there at Gap. Um look, lastly, I want to end on this. The cool thing about Yahoo Finance is we the next generation investors and business folks watch and read are just all over this platform and it's the most amazing thing. If they are watching, listening to this, how do they become a powerhouse like you in business? >> I think there's a number of things. And thank you for >> Well, you are a powerhouse. >> calling me that. When I interview people, I always say by the time they get to me, it's beyond their resume, right? I look for self-awareness. I look for self-belief. I look for authenticity. I look for obsessive curiosity. I look for people who've tried to have an impact outside what their realm is and I just say you can have an impact in your first role and then the more you go, the bigger your platform is, the more impact you really look to have. I look for people who look around the corners, who are thinking beyond what's right in front of them. And an example I give is, you know, when I left Nike, and you're the number two at Nike, you're the cool kid, right? >> Mhm. >> And I went to take over Home Shopping Network and go IAC. There were people who dismissed me, right? They didn't see what I saw. I had just spent the last year in Asia every 2 weeks seeing what was happening with mobile and changes in content. And I saw a platform that could create editorial program commerce, kind of like everything we're talking about today with social commerce. I didn't just see what was in front of me and that's what we did. And I'm never going to forget the people who dismissed me. But on the other hand, there were incredible people who came with me cuz they knew me and saw. So, I think all of those things, especially when I talk to younger people, are important. How you lead, how you show up, how you think about business, how it is a ongoing journey. You have to keep reinventing. I thought about that. I wrote something yesterday. So, we have a winery up in the Hudson Valley. And it's my husband's dream, and it's a great wine, but I was walking through the vineyards Sunday morning. And at the end of every row of vineyards is a rose bush. And the reason the rose bush is there, if there's any infestation, the rose bush is going to get it before the vines get it. And I thought to myself, what is the rose bush in business? And when I think about the things that kind of keep me up at night, right? Is you don't want any complacency in the business. And you don't want people who aren't looking around the corners and identify what the challenge could be or what the crisis could be before it happens. And you need to have that rose bush. You know, what what are what who is around you and what are you doing to basically think about what what could be those things that could affect your organization given what's happening in the world, you know? And if you get too complacent, you just keep walking by the rose bush and don't like it. And it's been interesting because in the last 4 years, my role has changed so dramatically in that for 45 years, the consumer was my client and I was the client. And now we're, you know, in an incredible space as Consello being a trusted advisors to the biggest CEOs in the world. And one of our incredible assets is that because we're across industry, because we look at every aspect of what's happening in the world globally every day, and because all our partners and Declan Kelly, who's the CEO, have been operators. So, we've been in that seat. We're not consultants. We have to be the rose bush in a lot of circumstances and looking what could be an, you know, influence on the business positively or challenge on the business negatively every single day and be that partner to the CEO. And, you know, to me that's the most important thing we all have to be thinking about, especially in this environment. >> Yeah. Thank you for always making time with me. Uh really, you've been so generous with your time for me. I mean, I'm thinking back when I started here 8 years ago, uh you gave me the time of day. >> I always love it. >> It was really nice to see you. Thank you for doing this. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> All right, that's it for the latest episode of Power Players.